Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/22/1994 01:35 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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HOUSE BILL NO. 409
"An Act relating to the maximum amount of assistance
that may be granted under the adult public assistance
program and the program of aid to families with
dependent children; proposing a special demonstration
project within the program of aid to families with
dependent children and directing the Department of
Health and Social Services to seek waivers from the
federal government to implement the project; and
providing for an effective date."
MARK GREENBERG, CENTER FOR LAW AND SOCIAL POLICY, WASHINGTON
D.C. spoke in support of three features of the proposed
demonstration project:
* An increase in work incentives for Aide to
Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) family
members;
* The waiver of the 100 hour rule, that currently
disqualifies two parent families with a full time
worker regardless of the family's income's; and
* Waivers of vehicle equity which disqualifies
families who own a single vehicle worth more than
$2,500.
Mr. Greenberg discussed the workfare requirement. He
emphasized that running a workfare program costs money. He
asserted that evidence implies that workfare programs do not
dramatically raise employment. He questioned if funding
would be better spent to improve job programs.
Mr. Greenberg questioned the equality of reducing payments
to all AFDC and Adult Public Assistance (APA) recipients in
order to fund a program available to a few.
Representative Brown asked if federal welfare reform will
include waivers allowed for in HB 409. Mr. Greenberg
pointed out that the federal administration has not
introduced legislation. He observed that federal policy
encourages state reform but requires programs to be cost
neutral to the federal government.
HB 409 was HELD in Committee for further discussion.
HOUSE BILL NO. 409
"An Act relating to the maximum amount of assistance
that may be granted under the adult public assistance
program and the program of aid to families with
dependent children; proposing a special demonstration
project within the program of aid to families with
dependent children and directing the Department of
Health and Social Services to seek waivers from the
federal government to implement the project; and
providing for an effective date."
Representative Therriault provided members with AMENDMENT 1
(copy on file). He MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT 1.
Representative Grussendorf OBJECTED. Representative
Therriault explained that Amendment 1 would allow the
Fairbanks North Star Borough to participate in the
demonstration project. He maintained that the cost of
including Fairbanks in the demonstration project will not
exceed revenues anticipated to be raised by the legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE spoke in opposition to Amendment 1.
He expressed concern that the workfare will not be effective
in achieving the desired goal. He suggested that the
workfare program will not result in the gain of marketable
jobs.
Representative Hanley disagreed that workfare programs will
not encourage marketable job skills.
Members discussed the introduction of House Finance
Committee legislation.
Representative Therriault noted support of individuals in
his district for Amendment 1 to HB 409. He clarified that
Fairbanks cannot be included in the demonstration project
without the adoption of Amendment 1.
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A roll call vote was taken on the motion to ADOPT AMENDMENT
1
IN FAVOR: Foster, Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault,
MacLean, Larson
OPPOSED: Brown, Grussendorf, Hoffman
Representative Navarre was not present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (8-3).
JAN HANSEN, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES observed that the
adoption of Amendment 1 would increase the cost of the
legislation by $300.0 thousand dollars annually in FY 95 -
99.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-69, Side 1)
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 2 (copy
on file). She MOVED to AMEND Amendment 2 by including,
Amendment to Amendment 1 (copy on file). There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown explained that Amendment 2 would create
the Healthy Families Program. She stressed that the program
would address a number of social problems. She noted that
section 5 would provide that the program is funded through
the ratable reductions in AFDC and APA. She observed that
the sponsor may not support funding the program through the
ratable reduction.
Representative Martin asserted that the program should be
reviewed by the House Health, Education and Social Services
Committee. Representative Brown noted that the House
Health, Education and Social Services Committee declined to
entertain amendments while the bill was before their
Committee.
Representative Hanley did not feel that the program could be
funded at this time. Representative Brown MOVED to delete
section 5, Funding Intent, from AMENDMENT 2. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Brown WITHDREW AMENDMENT 2. She expressed
her intention to offer Amendment 2 at another time.
Representative Navarre MOVED to add a new paragraph to read,
"(4) an area consisting of a home rule city that is
contained within the boundaries of a second class borough
located on a peninsula within a hundred miles of Anchorage,
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with a population of 65,000 persons or more and the second
class borough described in this paragraph."
Representative Navarre WITHDREW his MOTION.
Co-Chair MacLean provided members with AMENDMENT 3 (copy on
file). She explained that Amendment 3 would allow the North
Slope Borough to participate in the demonstration project.
Representative Hanley spoke in support of Amendment 3. He
noted that the Department of Health and Social Services has
decided to allow all persons in rural areas to participate.
There being NO OBJECTION, AMENDMENT 3 was adopted.
Representative Navarre asked if the amendments adopted by
the Committee would necessitate an increase in the ratable
reduction. Representative Hanley stated that Amendment 3
would not result in an increase to the fiscal note. He
reiterated that Amendment 1 will not result in a net
increase in the ratable reduction.
Representative Brown provided members with AMENDMENT 4 (copy
on file). She explained that Amendment 4 would delete the
ratable reduction to Adult Public Assistance (APA). She
argued that the majority of APA recipients are elderly or
disabled persons. She questioned if APA benefits should be
reduced in order to fund the demonstration project. She
pointed out that the APA client group is not in a position
to benefit from the results of the demonstration project
since they are unlikely to return to the work force.
Representative Brice spoke in support of Amendment 4. He
raised the issue of equality. He did not feel that APA
clients should be asked to pay for a program that will not
benefit them. Representative Brown MOVED to ADOPT AMENDMENT
4.
In response to a question by Co-Chair Larson, Representative
Hanley observed that APA payments are at 110 percent of the
poverty level, AFDC payments are at 74 percent of the
poverty level. He explained that the Department of Health
and Social Services did not want the discrepancy between the
two recipients to increase. He acknowledge that there are
inequities in the legislation.
Ms. Hansen reiterated that the Department of Health and
Social Services desires that any reduction be across the
board. She noted that there is a disparity between the
level of payments for AFDC and APA.
Representative Brown emphasized that there is little chance
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that clients served by APA will be able to return to the
work force. She noted that APA clients are unable to work.
Representative Brown suggested that the program could be
funded without the inclusion of APA. Members discussed
anticipated revenues. Ms. Hansen noted that an
appropriation from the legislature is needed to fund FY 95.
She acknowledged that the ratable reduction is in excess of
what is need in FY 95. She reiterated the Department's
position to maintain an across the board reduction. She
clarified that APA clients are living outside of state
institutions.
Representative Hanley OBJECTED to the adoption of AMENDMENT
4. A roll call vote was taken on the motion.
IN FAVOR: Brown, Grussendorf, Hoffman, Navarre, Larson
OPPOSED: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, MacLean
Representative Foster was not present for the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (5-5).
HB 409 was HELD in Committee for further discussion.
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